An Exclusive Interview with We’re Here’s Johnnie Ingram

Johnnie Ingram

I have been a fan of HBO’s docuseries We’re Here from the first episode. If you still haven’t caught the series, now entering production on its third season, it features three well-known queens from RuPaul’s Drag Race — Bob the Drag Queen, Eureka O’Hara and Shangela — as they travel the country, visiting small towns (mostly ‘Red’ politically) to help three individuals with various issues they are dealing with, from coming out stories to trans visibility and everything in between. Season 1, which was Emmy nominated for Outstanding Unstructured Reality Program, was unfortunately cut short by the start of the COVID pandemic, dramatically shutting down production after about three days in Spartanburg, South Carolina and causing production to keep everyone safe but still come up with a season finale episode. All of Season 2 was produced under strict COVID guidelines, and the talent in front of and behind the camera still turned out eight hours of ‘Must See TV’ that deserves much more Emmy recognition.

I’ve recapped every episode of the series and noticed the social media posts linking to the reviews getting some ‘Likes’ from one of the show’s creators, Johnnie Ingram. Thrilled to have been noticed, I messaged Johnnie over the course of Season 2 to ask a question or share my feelings about the episodes. I got another thrill when Luke from Season 2’s premiere episode also ‘Liked’ and commented on our Twitter post about his episode, so I thought that maybe I should ask Johnnie if he’d be interested in doing an interview for Hotchka. He was very gracious and agreed to do so, and the original plan was to shoot a few questions to him via email but … I wanted to know so much about the show that it just made more sense to do the interview by phone. And we did — for 90 minutes! Johnnie appreciated my enthusiasm for the show, and his passion for We’re Here is certainly infectious.

Johnnie Ingram, in my opinion, is the definition of an ‘overnight sensation’. Born and raised in Morristown, Tennessee, basically around the corner from Dollywood and not far from Eureka’s home town of Johnson City, Johnnie says he didn’t have a horrible time growing up but once he was able to leave he knew he could be his authentic self and live his truth. He moved to Chicago to study photography and design (and worked in drag bars), and ended up working in advertising which was a bit of a left turn from what he had been studying. But he loved the creativity and putting his own perspective on things with his graffiti and design background. He then moved to Toronto with his partner, which did not work out, then to New York and Los Angeles, continuing to work in advertising and doing what he could to give back to the community, focusing a lot of his attention on AIDS awareness projects.

After moving to Los Angeles, Johnnie met his now partner Stephen Warren, a Hollywood entertainment lawyer who is also a huge advocate for the LGBTQ+ community and was co-chair of GLAAD and served on the Board for ten years, and the two formed a romantic and creative bond. While vacationing in Puerto Vallarta, the pair watched a lot of RuPaul’s Drag Race and were frustrated with the sudden conservative right turn the country had taken with the election of the previous president. That was the catalyst for the idea of bringing these glamorous drag queens to these small, conservative towns that had little to no LGBTQ+ representation and probably hadn’t seen a drag queen before. With Stephen’s Hollywood connections, a casual lunch with the head of HBO and a conversation about the show’s premise turned out to be just what the network was looking for. Johnnie put together a quick pitch, writing out an episode (and while documentaries are unscripted, there is still writing to be done to outline what the production will entail) and that led to the production of a pilot to prove the concept would work, and in a bit of serendipity — which included the hard work of putting the pilot together and having those connections in Hollywood — We’re Here was born and Johnnie (and Stephen) suddenly found themselves running a show.

What follows is the bulk of my conversation with Johnnie (which has been slightly edited for clarity and space) which was originally conducted in January 2022.

Johnnie Ingram

— CD: When you pitched the show to HBO, were Bob, Eureka and Shangela always the three queens considered to be the mentors? Bob had said in an interview that he just got a call out of the blue about a ‘top secret’ project that someone wanted to talk to him about.

★ JI: Yeah. Well, it was funny. So Steven, through his contacts, we were able to get phone numbers. We actually met with Eureka first because she had just moved to Los Angeles. So that made it a lot easier, but Bob was living in New York at the time. So we ended up meeting Bob in New York. And then Shangela, we never met with initially because when we called her she was backstage at an Ariana Grande concert with Frankie Grande and we just called out of the blue and was like, ‘Hey, I want to talk to you about this HBO show’, and she was like ‘What? Wait, I’m about to pose with Ariana Grande, I’ll call you right back.’ And Bob we ended up meeting at he Nomad Hotel (NYC) for dinner and it was just kind of funny. Now that we’ve known Bob for quite a while it probably wasn’t the best idea to take Bob to some fancy dinner, although I think he had a good time, but it was a little loud and Bob is a picky eater, but I think he really enjoyed it. He ordered duck or something because he was feeling kind of classy and it was funny. But Bob did warm up to us and now we just adore him and he’s like a brother. We met Eureka at the Sunset Tower Hotel. We had lunch and ‘Reka’ was just thrilled at the opportunity. We were just looking for a trio of different drag artists that had connections to small towns who could also have empathy when we go into these communities, because we’ve seen these shows where the ‘coastal elite’ go into these communities and sort of be judgmental and I don’t think that was the right approach. So we wanted to go in with this show, and we wanted to leave with empathy. So we really wanted to have artists that could lead with empathy. So that’s why we picked those three, and they weren’t friends to begin with, but they have developed a really great friendship over the course of the show.

— CD: I only really knew them from Drag Race prior to this, and I’ve watched Bob’s YouTube videos with Monet X Change. But a lot of their personae has been mostly of the ‘blame it on the edit’ type of thing from Drag Race. But I have a totally new admiration for them from seeing them work on We’re Here, especially Shangela because she always just seemed more out there with her ‘here I am and who are you’ personality, but I appreciate the empathy and compassion that they all show for the people they work with in each episode.

★ JI: Yeah. I mean I think it is really due to the fact that there just isn’t a lot of, you know, besides this to a competition format, which, you know, it’s competition. So people are gonna have a very different personality and if you’re competing with a bunch of other performers you’re going to get things that are going to get a little … I think it’s encouraged to get a little crazy for the edits. I definitely learned from my experience in Chicago being mentored by drag artists, telling me how to navigate the gay scene, was the best mentors one could get and it really helped me. I don’t think that side of drag has really been seen on television, so that was part of the authenticity we wanted to frame with the show.

— CD: How do you choose the locations for the show and then the participants? What is the casting process like, how do people get involved and how do you get the okay from the town to film there? I’m sure some places are a bit resistant, and we’ve seen some of that resistance on screen, so how do you even begin the process of putting an episode together?

★ JI: We have an amazing casting team for us that do go to great lengths to find our characters, the drag kids as we call them. ‘Cause we don’t really seek out people that just want to be on television. We try to find, real, authentic stories, real people in these communities, but we tend to start in with community leaders, whether it’s a local LGBT organization, you know, some of these are incredibly small being that we’re in small towns. So once you find one community leader, you’re six degrees from everyone else in town. But we tend to find or search for a particular story that we anticipate will be a story that will have an arc to it. ‘Cause you know drag can’t cure everything, but I think you can help people that are maybe struggling with their identities or struggling with self-expression, or maybe particularly like just opening up a dialogue with your parents because I think you’re just sort of at a stalemate based on you’re in a community, where most people are like it’s kind of a don’t ask, don’t tell situation. It’s like, it’s okay to be yourself, but let’s not talk about it, but you know, you can’t really live your life like that. It does build up over time. We generally start with some community leader because it also helps when we leave. We know that our drag kids have some support on the ground. So I think that is very important to us. And we didn’t want to just leave town and sort of say well, that’s you now, see you later. I think that was very, very important to us. So that’s generally our approach. Sometimes we will scour some news articles or where we want to find a place or a town like, for example, Gettysburg or Selma, Alabama that has a character of its own, so that plays in addition to the three characters as there is some historic event or some US history or it’s a place where the LGBT community is marginalized even just by saying names.

— CD: So what is the shooting schedule like? In the interview with Bob, he said it took nine months to film one of the seasons, but people probably get the impression that you just go into a town for a week then move on to the next town for another week. But from what Bob said, you would film for the week, then take a few weeks or a month off before going to the next location.

★ JI: Yeah, this isn’t an easy show to make. I heard through word of mouth that Drag Race was like one episode and it was incredibly efficient, but we’re really trying to move the needle here. We’re existing in a place where it’s really uncomfortable for everyone, including the crew and cast. Where in places where there are no Whole Foods, no matcha lattes … well, if there is a matcha latte we’ve found them. (laughing) But it’s very uncomfortable. So there’s the schedule is very long data, but that’s our show runner. He comes from more of a documentary background, which was how we really wanted to approach the show. So it didn’t feel like a reality program, how a traditional reality program would be, we wanted to have it be real. This is sort of following these three characters who are from a reality show so you have this sort of ‘docu-ality’ vibe. so we need to exist in these places for a significant amount of time for people to know that we’re there. So generally, I don’t think it was anticipated to take nine months to film the second season, but COVID hasn’t helped our case. It takes about 10 days to film one episode and we tend to take about a week or two off to get ready for the next episode. And then sort of halfway through the season, we do generally give a little bit of a break. The Queens’ schedules can be a little difficult to navigate as well, so we just try to give them opportunities to, you know, do the side hustle so they can make some money and we organize and get ready to invade the next community.

— CD: Okay. So when you go into a town do you hire locals, do you have your own crew? I noticed, and I don’t know if I was just something I was thinking I was seeing, but it looks like there are different backup dancers for the show in each town so I didn’t know if you just had dancers as part of the cast or if you actually hired local dancers.

★ JI: Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t even make it on the show because portraying three stories is ambitious as it is. So we do try to involve the community, the local community everywhere possible, and that includes the backup dancers. Not every place has dancers, but generally if there’s like some college or some school or a dance studio we are knocking on their door, trying to find some people to participate in the drag performance. We tend to use local artisans or makers and the community to assist in the creation of the safe space. And in addition, we’re finding locations, which is one of the hardest things to do, to set up our individual scenes. What you’re seeing on camera is generally the only place that will let us film or perform in town. Not always, sometimes we do need to have certain parameters, especially as COVID made it a little more challenging as you saw. A lot of our shows were outdoors which was a whole challenge on its own for Season Two. But we try to find a local bar that is sort of under the radar, the safest place for people to hang out, we try to support those places whenever possible. But if not those places specifically, then we’ll create one. I really wish we were able to put more of that on screen, that’s how hard it is to find a place that will let us have the performance. We’ve been kicked out of places where we’ve had things organized up until the last minute. And then somebody somehow changes their mind, or hears the LGBTQ acronym and they’re like, oh, no, we want out of this. We don’t want to do this. So you get a lot of whispered hate, not hatred by judgment. Mostly what you’re seeing on screen is the only location that will allow us to be there.

The suitcases in the first episode … there was a sign painter in Gettysburg, we saw his work and we wanted to give a give to Bob, Shangela and Eureka and we thought those suitcases were a great idea, but we wanted to paint their names on them and we just asked him, ‘Hey, can we do this?’ And he was sort of curious, like what are you doing here, and we invited him to the drag show. When we go out to restaurants we’re always ‘hey, come to the show, come have a good time’, you know, impact as many people as we can. And he was just sort of like ‘well, I won’t tell my wife I did this’, he was very hesitant but at the same time I think that’s progress where at least you’re opening the door or having conversations. He created them, he still made them for us and he came out to deliver them and he saw our wild and crazy art cars and stuff. And he was very intrigued. I think that is, again, having conversations where it’s moving the needle.

— CD: Well now that you mentioned the cars, to me they don’t exactly look street legal, so I don’t think you’re actually driving them across the country. So how do you get them from place to place, and where do you put them when you’re not shooting?

★ JI: So season one, we actually did take them from town to town. And they are not street legal. You are correct. We did manage to find some side streets or engage with the city and they were able to close down the streets to make an official almost parade-like landing. We really wanted to drive around more, but they are definitely more beautiful than they are operational. The cars that were bought were mostly lemons, so there are a lot of pictures that have them breaking down on the side of the street. But we did ship them from place to place in Season One more than in Season Two. We sort of had the opportunity for them to shine but because of COVID and just the difficulties of navigating that from a budget perspective, we made the decision to only highlight them in one place and film them in one location. That was an unfortunate thing we had to compromise on, but it isn’t really as much about them as it is about the story so we made that call.

— CD: Going back to the locations, you mentioned how some of the places had been a little more difficult to film in than others, and I was wondering if you’d ever selected a town and they were like no, we don’t want you here. I worry when I watch some of the episodes, like the Watertown episode, it actually made me anxious watching the show. I was just really fearful that something was going to happen, and I wondered about your security. You had that one prayer group across the street from the theater, and it just seemed like you had more opposition in Season Two than you did in Season One.

★ JI: I mean, it’s definitely concerning, but I would say none of these places are unsafe. I mean, they’re generally small towns. From our point of view for a queer person, it feels unsafe, especially when we’re condensing those stories, you know? And so in an hour, you do get quite a bit of resistance in the storytelling, but Watertown specifically was the most resistance we got. The first season was Branson. These are two very challenging places to be queer. Watertown was actually like ‘woo, yeah, cool, I’m in South Dakota’ because I’d never been to South Dakota before and I wanted to learn more about it. What made it more challenging is that if you’re just a person walking down the street no one’s gonna really bother you. But the main challenging for Season Two is we were the only ones wearing masks. So if you really wanted to know who was working on the HBO drag show in town, clearly we were watched. So that’s what made it a little more challenging. We were too easy to identify. But was it a difficult place to exist? Yes. Did it feel dangerous? No. I mean, we do have security. I posted some photos on my Instagram with our crew and Glam Squad and it’s like thirty people surrounding these Queens so at any given moment it isn’t like you would ever feel unsafe. And there’s plenty of support. Our crew is around sixty people. So we have quite a lot of people and we were always encouraging everyone to hang out with each other when going out and stuff, but we never really ran into anything that felt dangerous. There definitely have been people, lots of online threats, et cetera, but I think that’s just something we’re seeing everywhere. These people love to hide behind their keyboards, but when they come out and voice their opinion in person … it’s very rarely that you have the prayer circle, but they were at least peaceful. And we did try to engage with them to get their side of the story but they did not want to talk to us. So I think just being there they said enough.

— CD: Right, And that was the same episode where the show made the front page of the newspaper.

★ JI: Yeah. So that was complicated because from what we learned later there was one particular author or journalists that worked at the newspaper whom I think ended up leaving, but wrote an initial article which was just absurd. And then I think we had another journalist follow up and was a little more kind and was very excited that our presence there. So we got very mixed messages but every day there was another news article about is being in town. I think in particular that entrance we did with the biker outfits was wild and the people’s jaws just dropped, and it was really fun. When we landed in town there were a lot of bikers, it’s sort of a very South Dakota thing that sort of condensed there specifically. So we wanted to lean in to that. It was definitely the hardest place to be. I don’t really see us returning to South Dakota in some sense.

— CD: You mentioned Branson, and I remember there was a very difficult time finding a place to have the show.

★ JI: Yeah, Branson is not far off from Dollywood or Pigeon Forge near where I grew up. It’s got a similar type of vibe, a lot of ‘family-friendly’ Christian entertainment. So a lot of places really just wanted to have nothing to do with us. And the place we ended up having the drag show had these two poles in the middle of the seats and I was just like ‘well, this is it, I guess this is where we’re having the show.’ We had to edit around those poles but we still made it work.

— CD: I’m always curious about the costumes too. I’ve read that the costumes for the cast are made during the time you’re in each town, right? For each episode, it just blows my mind because some of them are just so intricate. How do they even do that? I’m sure not every town has a Joann’s Fabrics, so do they bring the materials with them or have an idea in advance what will be made?

★ JI: It’s very hectic. That’s a whole other show and hopefully we’re able to build a larger and larger audience and we can get that on screen. But once we get casting, we’re trying to give the impression that the Queens know a bit but we don’t tell them a ton going in. So it’s complicated. We hop on the phone with our design team, with our Queens, wigs and face, and a choreographer before we get into town. Most of the designers are in New York. Eureka’s designers are in L.A., and Eureka tends to use multiple designers, so we try to get on the phone or on a Zoom and just talk through the casting without giving too many details. Generally there are some sort of story themes. We try to start to think about a handful of songs that we can try to land so we can try to shape the show so it’s not like three really sad songs. That would be a fun show to watch! So we try to think through what’s going to make a great show. So we give them sort of the themes of the characters, which can change once we’re on the ground. That’s just the start of the show so that they can at least buy fabrics, like we’re going to do a gold fantasy or this is going to be a sheer fantasy, or something specific like that. So that’s kind of how we do it. And then when we get into town and they meet their drag kids, and they sort of have more conversations and we meet again, we start talking about how to execute after the first meeting. And we get started and think where do we see this going? And then sometimes it can even change in the middle, so we’ve got to make it work. But, yeah, it’s a very difficult process for our design team, which is also why we really try to stay in town as long as we can.

And then we create a work room of sorts generally, and the work is done either in that building or sometimes it’s in the hotel where all of our design teams stay, just all working together, they all help each other out. If one gets in the weeds we end up hiring local stitchers and people to just get those things ready for stage. So it is intense, but it’s worth it. We’ve been trying to get better at making things easier for the design team, but I think they’re used to working in a pressure cooker so we just reward them with lots of love … and money.

— CD: Hopefully the Emmy folks will take notice because they really do a lot of work.

★ JI: Oh, I know. Well thankfully this season we’ve got the hair and makeup getting some attention of the guilds, so they have been nominated somewhere. The same will happen for our design team because we are going to work doing whatever we can to campaign, to get them some hardware to go along with all the hard work.

— CD: In our previous conversations I’ve told you that I have some background in video production and have worked on documentary-type projects so I know that an ‘unscripted’ show isn’t totally unscripted. It has to be produced to a point. But here it always feels organic, it never feels over-produced like some of those other shows, that one in particular we talked about with a similar theme. Those little confessional segments with the participants or the talent talking to the camera, they always sound like they’re coached to get a sound bite and it never feels authentic. I don’t get that with We’re Here. Everything just seems organic and natural, and that’s why I’m more drawn to it. It feels like I, the viewer, am involved in the stories where with the other shows I’m just watching a piece of entertainment.

★ JI: Yeah. Thank you for noticing that. I think that’s something we’re very proud of and that’s because what’s happening is real. Our Queens, you know, are from a more formatted background so they understand that’s very tied to television and we’ve had to kind of undo a bit of that. Our approach is that we just want them to go in with not a lot of information. We give them some information because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to make our show correct. We want everybody to be able to do their best work. But outside of that, we don’t give them a whole lot of information and they’re always complaining, like, ‘what am I supposed to do?’ It’s like, well, you have to peel the onion. It’s like, kind of go in and pretend you’re like Anthony Bordain, like you are curious and you have to really find out, you know, and get to know them. There’s a lot of time off camera that they spend with their drag kids, they’re playing video games. And Bob, I was spending a significant amount of time with his drag kid in Branson because they really weren’t connecting and just sort of needed production to help build that relationship and putting in that work because he really wanted to. The same with Akeelah in Selma. They’re really doing the work and I think it’s a very different approach to what you would expect from a reality TV show, but we really want them to genuinely get to know these people. And when they’re doing their interviews, it’s coming from a place of knowledge and not just making stuff up.

— CD: You’re not feeding them lines.

★ JI: No. Occasionally, and this is very rarely, we do get through an episode and sometimes we need a very specific sound bite, little short ones, but we will do that but we don’t tend to feed them at all. Our showrunner and editing teams will dig for it. They’ll find it before we have to rerecord something.

— CD: Have you ever had someone sign up to do the show and then during production they suddenly decided they didn’t want to do it anymore?

HBO

★ JI: Oh yeah. It happens and we’ve talking about showing that but with COVID it was more complicated. We really wanted to lean into that. In Del Rio, Texas besides the mayor, both Esael and Stella, or Joey who is now Stella, were last minute because we had two candidates that just ghosted us last minute and we nervous, so we wouldn’t have a show. And what’s been great, what seems to happen under the pressure cooker of the show and just kind of coming in and moving this thing along, you know, the energy is really good. I think it was one of our best episodes ever, and it’s not that we even had a backup. We really didn’t. We just had to quickly find two replacements for those two characters. So it happens quite often, I’m trying to remember this season, because this season was a little trickier. In Hawaii we had some people bow out last minute, one was ended up getting COVID. So we ended up using another family member, which actually worked out even better. It varies, it’s very last minute, but it works somehow. It always works out. But I wouldn’t mind at some point actually having that tension build over the course of an episode. But we haven’t been able to because you have to get people through all the COVID testing and everything. So we had to, in order to even create the show, we’d have to test someone. Otherwise there was nothing on camera to set up our story to tell.

— CD: When you were in Spartanburg and everything shut down and then you went back, I was wondering if the one guy who was doing it to support his brother was going to come back because even before COVID he seemed to be questioning his decision to participate in the show.

★ JI: Yeah, he definitely did not want to come back. He was kind of hoping we wouldn’t come back. Those stories evolved, and we don’t want to push people to do something they know they’re not comfortable doing. We don’t force the story. For example our first show with Haley showing up to the drag show. She never really reconnected with her mom. There’s much more to that story than we were able to tell in an hour, but that’s why we just let things be, and things do evolve over a longer period of time which we sort of talked a little bit about different ways to do a follow up. And we tend to follow up with just a simple card or something at the end of an episode, whenever there is a bit of a story turn, but you know we don’t really intentionally try to move the needle or create some sort of fantasy or fake ending. So sometimes it isn’t quite a fairytale, but sometimes it is. And most of the people we keep in touch with and there are a lot of different story arcs and people do evolve or change after the drag show. It takes some time for people to have those deep conversations and for it to actually impact the community and the individuals. If we were staying there for six months we’d probably be able to tell those stories, but we are sort of fast and quick in these places so we only get a little taste of how these stories evolve.

— CD: As we know, Season One was cut short by COVID. Were there only supposed to be six episodes or were you supposed to do more?

★ JI: No, we were hoping to do more, planning a bit of a reunion show. I know this reunion question keeps coming up. So my answer to another one of your questions, and even in this past season, you know, we were anticipating doing some sort of reunion special. So we’ve never actually made the show as it was intended because COVID has made it challenging to get a lot of people together and not to mention flying a lot of people from a bunch of places into one place and trying to put on another show. We have lots of different, really great ideas on how to do that, but we just haven’t been able to do it because it was the state of the world. So yes is the answer. And I’m hopeful this season we’ll be able to fulfill our fantasy, but at the same time, we don’t want to end the season where it feels like the show is ending. There’s a lot of work to do. There’s a lot more stories to tell. So we are currently creatively trying to figure out based on, you know, where to head this season since we are hopeful that we’ll be able to create a proper season but it is, like I said, it’s really hard to make. We’re just currently talking through all the ways in which we could possibly wrap up something, or we’ve also talked about other discussions of maybe we do give people time to evolve even longer. And then you do a more thoughtful follow up with a lot of the cast members. So stay tuned on that. We don’t really have any answers, but we are hopeful we’re able to create a proper season this year.

— CD: Well I have to tell you that even though the sixth episode of Season One wasn’t what you intended, watching it I felt it was the most important hour of television that had been produced that year. I think that episode should be seen by everyone and used as a teaching tool because hearing Bob’s and Shangela’s and Eureka’s stories, and then juxtaposing that with the people who had already been on the show and everything, I just thought it was an amazing episode. And I think I use that episode to start telling a lot of people that I knew hadn’t watched the show to watch this episode first and then go back and watch the rest of the season because it’s going to blow you away. And I’ve gotten a lot more people watching the show now.

★ JI: Oh, thank you. I mean, that episode was like … I just couldn’t believe we were actually able to make it. You know, this was our first rodeo and we do have a really great relationship with our showrunner. And we were just sort of like … I literally cried in Spartanburg the first time in front of sixty or so crew members, just devastated that we had to up and leave because of the shutdowns. I just never, even in my career of advertising, ever experienced anything like that. And thanks to our production company, IPC, they’re a larger entity and they were able to move our whole team to virtual really quickly. So we just know we’re both really good at pivoting and coming up with ways to, you know, how do we make this, this sixth episode? And, you know, we really were just like, a lot of people don’t know how these performers came to be. If you haven’t really watched Drag Race and you’re coming in from a different angle, let’s do a deep dive into our lead cast. And so we got as much archival footage of them as we could find and literally set up a tool for virtual interviews and even managed to get the Beyoncé clearance and then those performances that were never made it on the show. And then, I guess somehow through the virtue of virtual reality, we were able to tell a thoughtful, more documentary style episode, which, I mean, I’d been eager to do more of that. And I think we do have a lot of ideas on more deep dive, deeper stories that we’re finding, if we’re able to find stories that merit an hour of our time, there might be opportunities to do more of that, because I do think our team, our creative team are incredible documentarians and we’re able to do great work, even in such very, very little time.

I was really worried about it though, because it definitely, it was a point where I had a few edits in. I was like, Ooh, I don’t know if this is going to be good. And then we just kept pushing and pushing and talking through it and found through their own stories and highlighting everyone’s struggle to get where they are, then sort of ending it with this emotional ‘we’re all in this together’ moment, I think that’s something you don’t really see a lot. And drag is a story, the music, the lip syncs, the performances are telling a story or make you feel something. I think that’s something that we really wanted to do differently. It’s not that all the time the drags will have to tell a story and be meaningful, but what we really wanted was to elevate and move the art of drag into a more storytelling space. And that’s kind of what our goal was.

— CD: Well, I was just an emotional wreck after that episode because it was just so good.

★ JI: I’m the crier over here.

— CD: So let me ask you about Season 2. I don’t know if I just started noticing it more or if it’s something you’ve done consciously, but Season 1 — because you were just starting and it was all new — it just seemed like you were focusing on the people who were participating in the show, with a little of their stories and the town while Season 2 seems to have more subtle storylines for each episode like the Temecula episode which was more about the mothers, And the Selma episode was, of course, about Selma. I mentioned the Hawaii episode which I just thought was a beautifully spiritual episode. So it seems like Season 2 had more themes per episode than Season 1. I don’t know if that’s just something I imagined or if it was intentional.

★ JI: Oh that was intentional. We’re on HBO, so it’s a very high bar creatively for the network. And we want to continue to elevate where we can, not to mention there were certain … challenges we had with existing in these towns because of COVID and there were certain things we just couldn’t do like interacting with a bunch of locals sporadically. You just couldn’t go to a large event because they didn’t exist while we were in production. Or where they did exist, we just didn’t want to be there. But what we did want to create with Season 2, even before COVID, was this sense of community.

And I think the themes per episode just kind of happened. The moms thing we just sort of noticed because we had these three very different moms, and the episode developed into the role of mothers specifically in the LGBTQ world and in the relationships which is important. That was just something we really wanted to highlight. And I think throughout the rest of the episodes, some of them are more obvious than others, and that is something we will continue to do and bring forward. I think it’s important that we don’t just do the same old, same old, telling their stories and expressing themselves on screen. It’s actually pushing people together and creating communities, and finding those sort of threads within these experiences. And even with the casting, that plays well for the story like our last episode was all three trans stories. We got to experience this place in Colorado which a lot of people felt was a really dark and really scary place but it really isn’t. I mean, if you are a trans person living in this place then it is and that’s the point of view we’re portraying. We want you to feel what it feels like to be trans in this community. And that is the day-to-day life. But Shangela’s drag daughter Angie Wadley is performing to this day. We turned a new leaf over in her life and she just loves performing as a drag performer now. So we got to celebrate these three very different individuals in Colorado, including Dustin who is just the most amazing person we’ve ever met, just so inspiring and so full of life.

— CD: I think that as important as the Season 1 finale was, the Season 2 finale is just as important because of the trans stories, especially now.

★ JI: Yeah. I mean, I don’t think enough people really noticed that. I don’t know why but we didn’t get as much recognition that we were hoping for because I think it was important especially with what was going on at another network. We were hopeful that it would help people understand what it is like being a trans person. We have a lot of education to do and I don’t think a lot of people really understand that, and I think if they’re meeting people and telling their stories that’s the only way we’re going to make a difference.

— CD: Let’s switch to a less heavy subject for a moment. I wanted to talk about the Selma episode — which is kind of a heavy episode — but the lighter moment of Bob’s hair. When he fell during the performance I was like, oh my gosh I can’t believe they left that in the show. And then I was like … wait a minute, the hair is moving. That was amazing!

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★ JI: Bob broke the internet with that. I mean that performance was legendary. I mean, that’s bob feeling supported, and really we all had a very rich experience in Selma. I think Selma wasn’t the most comfortable place to be but we all just loved our experience. We learned so much from the people there, the community there, and I think that performance, the weight and grace and the full collaboration of the design team and the makeup team, and Bob bringing his cousin from Columbus, Georgia all the way to Selma to sit on Bob’s shoulders and do that performance … I just couldn’t believe it. When we saw it, we knew this was a new bar that was set but it was really, really powerful drag at its finest. We were just so proud to pull that together and it was extraordinary to watch.

— CD: And that line someone said that Selma had done so much for the world but the world has done nothing for Selma, that was just like … oof, you know.

★ JI: I mean, especially now seeing voting rights and all that we’ve fought for, people are still fighting, we’re still fighting to this day and to see the people, all of those that have lost their lives and to be in Selma, a place that like Detroit has so much significance, but it’s just part of a state physically and the people there really love Selma, and there’s so much to love, but we have a lot of work to do, to shine a light on that community and hope that people not only see its potential, but what it means for America.

— CD: Let me talk real quickly about the Evansville episode and Pastor Craig. We all know what happened after the episode aired which was what they feared would happen (Pastor Craig and his family were dismissed by their church and lost their home). So has there been any news, have you been in touch with him, how are they doing?

★ JI: Pastor Craig, it was definitely difficult as you know. They were housed by the United Methodist Church and the family lived in the house while he was the pastor. But they had to move after his participation in the show. However, what was really great was that we saw the community and fans of the show all step up to help make ends meet so Pastor Craig didn’t have to worry about the family and the finances, so that’s been really great. And he himself wanted the GoFundMe taken down or stopped as he just didn’t want too much of the money or to get a little too out of control. I think he wanted to try to take a minute to appreciate all that had helped him because I think it went over almost double what he was initially asking for. He is now planning on creating, and forgive me this is not exactly right, but he’s trying to create an LGBTQ inclusive congregation. And there was another fundraiser, which had gotten pushed to the end of February because of COVID, but another fundraiser that the community is actually putting together for themselves, and I think he was scheduled to get back up in the get-up in hopes to raise money for the new congregation. We are really close with the organization and as soon as we hear updates we’ll help wherever we can.

But I think he’s in very good spirits. We’ve been very much in touch. We connected him at the time with some of our resources that GLAAD has sort of been through this before. There’s one particular person who used to be the head of a congregation that was pushed out as well, so it’s a similar situation and we really surrounded him with love and with resources to help them get though that hard time. And we know the story will continue, and I think we’ll hope we can continue to follow it and do what we can to update those following the story. But he is in good spirits, things are turning around for him and his family. It will be a difficult time but they’ll get through it. We’re doing what we can to stay close and keep him supported with whatever he needs.

— CD: Cool. I know you said earlier that when you leave town you make sure they have support there and you all keep in touch. I always wonder what happens to the people you work with once you’ve left. Back in Season 1 I fell so in love with Michael and his grandfather, I just wanted to give them a hug, and just wanted to be Michael’s friend. Have you kept in touch?

★ JI: Oh yeah. I mean it’s such a funny thing because you can’t take on everyone’s life but we do stay in touch. I know all of the drag kids themselves, they all have a big Facebook group where they all connect, and what’s really fun is they tend to meet up whenever possible, invite each other to their local Prides and support each other. They’re organizing on their own which I think is so, so, so great. And in Twin Falls, their little drag show in a sense has become bigger and more important and I think that light that we’re giving these communities, we really hope that will grow and that it’s something much bigger. I think as long as they feel, if they see they have that support from us and everyone is still connected thankfully virtually, we do our best to stay up to date. Thankfully Grandpa Larry is fine, and at the beginning of COVID somebody made a T-shirt that said ‘protect Grandpa Larry from COVID’, and it was like we’ll do whatever we can to get them the support they need.

And I know we’re in touch with Brandon and Mikayla (Season 1, Twin Falls). Sadly they were actually kicked out of their house for the drag show. Wherever they were living, I think it was in Mikayla’s parents’ basement and they had to get their own place, but Brandon was like we’ve been meaning to do that anyway so that was just sort of the catalyst for that to happen. But it wasn’t great for them, but thankfully they’re fine. Akeelah in Selma is still struggling to exist as a trans person of color but definitely has relocated to New Orleans or is maybe moving somewhere else. I don’t know, I’m trying to keep up with them but we are touched and we do our best to support where we can. I know Lady Shug from Season 1 (Farmington, New Mexico) made a cameo in Season 2, and he’s always doing performances around representing the Indigenous queer community which I think is quite great. You know, it’s sometimes small but there is support even within the little We’re Here community we’ve created.

— CD: Yeah, that was another episode that I really liked with the Indigenous people that were involved. I just thought it really taught me a lot.

★ JI: Yeah, I mean I think that’s what we’re trying to do is just highlight these stories that you wouldn’t normally hear about. And these communities that are even more marginalized than the most marginalized community you may have had in your head. So it’s like, that is the struggle, the intersectionality of being queer and something else is something that’s very important to us, and not to mention also living in a place where you don’t really have the resources available to you, or you still have to fight, or fighting the fight that we fought on the coasts years and years ago right now. I think it’s hopeful that through the glamorous drag performers and bringing them to town, we’re able to highlight those that struggle and get them the support they need.

— CD: I think the show is just, I’ve seen it grow and I think it gets better and better with each episode, and I really see it being used by various community groups as teaching tools. I think for each episode that has its specific people in it and here’s this community who has that community and just as a whole, the Season 1 finale and the Season 2 finale, I think the whole series just really could be used as a teaching tool for people who need to have their eyes opened. I just think you do a brilliant job of humanizing people who other people out there don’t consider human.

★ JI: Well thank you, it means so much to hear that because when we were creating this and seeing, growing up in a place where people don’t see you and don’t understand you that the only way for people to really see you is to tell stories, and hopefully through this artful storytelling, a creative connection to you, they can see or understand you, especially like Michael was saying to me, anyone who’s in a marginalized community but then layered on top of another community then We’re Here means so much from not only literally where we are from the Act Up movement years ago and what that means specifically we’re everywhere. And I know some countries like to say we’re not here or we’re not there like we weren’t but actually we’re everywhere and what that means. How can we sort of look to our community to learn something new about yourself, or how can we use this magical, gorgeous, elegant clothing and wrap yourself in it and you learn something new about yourself. Facing our community by taking those who are judgmental and facing them head on and then celebrating people in the community that would never normally be celebrated.

I mean I think it’s time, and Bob says it’s awesome. Why aren’t there any queer heroes? You don’t really see them, they don’t make Marvel movies with … well I think they are now but there are queer heroes and I think that now it’s time to not only celebrate it in a Marvel movie but also within your own communities, and doing so within what I would say is our ceremonial drag performance. And I think that’s the spirit of what the show is about.

— CD: Well this is a global thing like with Drag Race expanding into other countries, do you ever see international versions of We’re Here popping up?

★ JI: I mean, I love traveling. I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen all kinds of interesting stories of queer people across the globe, so the answer, the short answer is yes. The longer answer is when do I think it would? COVID has made it the most challenging to navigate but I think we definitely would love to highlight places across the planet. I think we are standing on the shoulders of RuPaul’s Drag Race and are thankful that they are expanding at a very virulent rate, which isn’t a bad thing, but I do think that means they’re just opening the door for more stories to be told in different ways to see the art form.

— CD: When we originally scheduled this interview, it was done in the hopes that we would get a third season and before we got to have our chat the show was renewed, so that’s excellent news. I can’t tell you how thrilled I was to hear that. You said you are gearing up for production now, so do you have any locations picked out or any little tidbits you can tell us? My husband was wondering since you went to Hawaii would you maybe be going to Alaska?

★ JI: Those are all really good questions. Nothing is in stone just yet, we’re just at the beginning of having creative conversations. All the things we’ve talked about have been discussed but until we find the right stories and the right sort of themes of Season 3 we’ll know more. I think there’s a lot of really interesting conversations on format as well. So I guess I want to say ‘stay tuned’, all of these are definitely things that we have been talking about and we’re very thrilled. We have a really great relationship with Nina Rosenstein, who is our executive at HBO, we just love working with her and found she has great taste and she just really loves how important the show has become. She really anticipated it when we sort of set off into this adventure, and I think she’s just so overjoyed with how important it’s become and how love is spread. She’s been at HBO almost longer than anyone else and I don’t want to say she’s legendary because nobody wants to hear that but she is an icon at HBO and I think this is just one thing she’s been most proud of in her career.

— CD: That’s great! Is there anything else you want to say to the fans who may be reading this, or anything else about the show we haven’t said yet that you just want to put out there?

★ JI: Just tell everybody. I think the more people that watch, the more of these shows we get to create. There’s a lot of television out there so you vote with your eyeballs on what kind of television you want to represent your community. And if this is something that people want to represent theirs then please watch. Thank you again for your time and thoughtfulness and all the support.

Seasons 1 & 2 of We’re Here are currently available to stream on HBO Max.

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